This Flash Back Friday was originally published as Episode 938 in January 2018. On this episode, Jason Hartman talks about Meet the Masters and the Journey tribute band he’ll have perform. He discusses why he enjoys Journey. Later on the segment, he finishes a client case study with Sue and Gary Pinkerton. Sue discusses self-management and the fragmentation of real estate which is beneficial for smaller investors.
Jason Hartman 0:00
Welcome to this week’s edition of flashback Friday, your opportunity to get some good review by listening to episodes from the past that Jason is hand picked to help you today in the present and propel you into the future. Enjoy.
Jason Hartman 0:13
Today’s flashback Friday comes from Episode 938. Originally published in January 2018.
Welcome to the creating wealth show with Jason Hartman. You’re about to learn a new slant on investing some exciting techniques and fresh new approaches to the world’s most historically proven asset class that will enable you to create more wealth and freedom than you ever thought possible. Jason is a genuine self made multi millionaire who’s actually been there and done it. He’s a successful investor, lender, developer and entrepreneur who’s owned properties in 11 states had hundreds of tenants and been involved in thousands of real estate transactions. This program will help you follow in Jason’s footsteps. On the road to your financial independence day, you really can do it on Now, here’s your host, Jason Hartman with the complete solution for real estate investors.
Jason Hartman 1:12
Welcome listeners from around the world. This is your host, Jason Hartman and I’ve got a special surprise for you today. You know, we always try to tread new ground occasionally. And we are doing that in this episode number 938 Episode 938. So thank you for joining me today. And, you know, we have meet the Masters coming up on Saturday. It’s just a few days away, literally. And I have to tell you something about myself that you may not know. It is something I am not allowed to share on the air with you at risk of a lawsuit. What is this that you don’t know about me? Well, you may not know that I have incredibly good taste. You MUSIC I’m a big fan of music. I absolutely love music. We have hired a tribute band to play journey for us at meet the masters. And I have got the director and the bass player here with me. He is a classically trained, truly professional musician. I’d like you to meet Giorgio Giorgio welcome. How are you? Oh, thank you. I’m doing great. It’s an honor to be here tonight. And we are so looking forward to the show and providing an amazing experience for everyone. Well, we are looking forward to it too. You know, this is the first time we’ve ever done a musical performance at any of our events, or you know, including meet the masters. We do several different types of events every year. We’re super excited. And you know, when I was looking for musicians, I thought who doesn’t love journey. In fact, I’ll tell you a kind of a funny story. I had a little spot in My life several years ago where I live right next to ASU and I kind of felt like I was going to college. It was really fun for a little, a little few years of my life there. I remember I was hosting a big giant party one night, and I had, I don’t know, probably 200 people in my swanky penthouse right by ASU and I accidentally, I fiddled with a stereo system and a journey song was playing, and I accidentally turned it off. And that was a huge, like, it just ruined the mood. And one of my friends Darren yelled out the funniest line ever, he said,
Giorgio Tupanjanin 3:35
Jason Hartman 3:36
turns off journey. I thought that was I thought that was a great line. What inspired you guys, Giorgio to do tributes to journey I mean, such a great band. I remember seeing journey as I mentioned to you in the Rose Bowl years ago with 90,000 people just amazing. I’ve seen them a couple times in concert.
Giorgio Tupanjanin 3:58
Why journey? You know that’s a great Question. Well, interesting enough, just a little background about me, which kind of brings us to where we’re at now. I have a jazz background and I’ve played a lot of jazz, a lot of fusion jazz. I actually even played with the great Frank gambali, who’s probably the foremost fusion jazz guitarist in the world today. And so, what I love playing along with classical and jazz and conventional contemporary music, is I love progressive music. I love music that has great heart and emotion and drive. And that’s why I love journey so much. Yeah. And so what inspired me is years ago, I Tucson journey and the second I heard them I just fell in love them I go, these guys are amazing. The music is amazing. They’re so prolific, and they bring you to a better place. I think I’m into a lot of music, but you know, compared to some of the other like, either British progressive rock groups or American progressive rock groups. To me there’s something about journey that says everyone apart. Yeah. So. So I just literally got into them and learn their material really well. And then a few years ago, I said to myself, you know what, I want to audition for a charity tribute band. And so I auditioned with my current group, who audition literally about 15 players. And I got the gig only because I knew the material better than probably most of the other ones that the additional people that that came. So that’s kind of how that all came about. And the beautiful thing is, we don’t just play the music. It’s not like playing like if you’re in a top 40 band or something like that. We’re all accomplished players. We all have graduated from conservatories, and we take it very seriously. But we have so much fun in the process. And so I think what we do is our goal has always been to if you close your eyes, can you hear the difference between the two and a lot of people have said Kind of hard to tell the difference. So that that’s an honor. Right? Right. If we’re getting people to that point, and we’re doing our job, yeah, you definitely are.
Jason Hartman 6:08
Well, I, you know, I have to tell you, I think that jazz musicians are likely and you know, correct me if I’m wrong about this. I’m not an expert. I’m just a consumer. But I think jazz musicians are probably the most technically talented musicians out there from a technical perspective for sure. I mean, you know, of course, everybody has their own taste in music musics a very personal thing, obviously. But jazz is a you know, it’s a it’s a technical type of music would would that be a proper characterization?
Giorgio Tupanjanin 6:37
Absolutely. You know, it has so many nuances and different avenues. And the chord structures and in a lot of complex most jazz is very complex. And, you know, it’s not just like playing a 145 progression as you would call a music where you’re going to a one chord, four chord to a to a five chord or whatever the case may be or another progression is 13625. With jazz, you can go from one, you know, from a six, eight rhythm to a three, four rhythm, it changes instantly. And so that is quite complex to master that. It takes a while. Yeah, right. So that’s a wonderful compliment. Thank you. And that’s the beauty of it is it is to always be challenged and, and be inspired at the same time.
Jason Hartman 7:23
The interesting thing about tribute bands, I mean, of course, there’s a lot of hacks out there that aren’t professionally trained like you guys are. And you know, I can’t wait to see you guys live Saturday night and you’ve done some big gigs. I mean, you recently played for the city of Fullerton in front of 15,000 people and we’re honored to have you play for our little our humble group. But, you know, you’ve done some some big stuff. You’ve got some good stuff on your resume, and I’ve watched your videos and they’re great. Tell us a little bit about some of the gigs you’ve done.
Giorgio Tupanjanin 7:54
Yes. Well, we did New Year’s. We did a great new year’s festival for the city of Fullerton. There was about 14 15,000 or so people it was a great event very, very festive and had fireworks and you know, but you know, again, a lot of journey fans and we got really great review from from the city and they actually are as we’re in the process of scheduling another event so that’s always good when you’re called back. That’s
Jason Hartman 8:21
awesome. And also you open for any money, I believe, right? Oh, yeah, we open for any money and Tony tickets to paradise.
Giorgio Tupanjanin 8:28
Yeah, he’s the funniest guy ever. I mean, he came it was kind of interesting story. He came into our dressing room after we finished soundcheck and we talked for probably two and a half hours and he kind of talked about these great stories, you know, experiences in his life and how we got discovered and you know, it was like really just kind of like hanging with a musician so to speak. He was very humble guy, hilarious, really insanely funny guy. And it was it was a great show. And so that was an outdoor event. A huge festival during the summer. And I loved it. It was phenomenal.
Jason Hartman 9:04
And you also got to hang out with journey last year, didn’t you? You went backstage and
Giorgio Tupanjanin 9:10
we were actually invited to the Irvine Meadows which was the second to the last show or last concert of the great before they concert venue. And so we actually got invited backstage and the drummer my drummer from turn captured Scott Brooks and I spent the entire show two and a half hour show. We were literally about six feet away from them in this special area like VIP area, and we saw the whole show and then after the show, we hung out with czerny in the green room and talked about equipment and history and experiences and we met the new lead singer are now
Jason Hartman 9:54
they discovered him on YouTube. karaoke
Giorgio Tupanjanin 10:00
Yeah, the lead singer that superseded Steve Perry with Steve Perry last night, he had a voice hit something, what happened to his voice and they had to replace him quickly. And they and Neil Sean, the lead singer, a lead guitarist, was looking on YouTube videos. And he saw arnelle Panetta, in the Philippines. He was in a band journey tribute band. And they called him up and he thought it was a joke. But eventually, they flew him first class to I think San Francisco is some Sound Studio. And he was he was in San Francisco for about a week and he audition. And ironically, he didn’t do a really good job the first time out, but they kept on working with him. And then I think after the second day or third day, he nailed it. And it was He’s unbelievable. Such great, great energy. He’s very humble guy too. So he’s really been an asset. I can’t believe he’s already been with the band. 10 years and good still. Wow, that’s amazing. Ted
Jason Hartman 10:57
time does fly. Want to make sure and we got to wrap it up because we’ve got an interview to do for the rest of the show here. But I wanted to introduce you before everybody comes to see you on Saturday and I can’t wait to see you guys there. I want to put in a couple requests. Okay. Now now listeners if you have any requests for any, any journey songs, and they do a few other things, too, so might go off and do something besides journey as well. A little bit. I want to request stone in love. And don’t stop believing you got to do stone, don’t stop believing, of course. Right? And we’ll see if all of our investors in the audience can sing. Don’t stop believing, you know. Okay, well, we will we will accommodate those requests. Absolutely. We could do every decade of the hits from the from the literally from the 70s to the 80s and the 90s. Until Steve Perry left and we even do some Steve Perry tunes just for fun. And then even some of the new stuff with arnelle bananas. So, we’re here for you guys. We’re going to do an amazing show. It’s going to be a memorable night. Yeah, we’re we’re looking forward to it. So everybody come in to meet the Masters, reach out to your investment counselor and tell them your journey request and we’ll we’ll submit them to Giorgio and his group and, and see if they can line those up for you. And we’re looking forward to a real good night too. It’s the first time again we’ve we’ve done a musical performance, but we really want to make this a part of our events. I’m super excited to have you guys, Giorgio, thank you so much. And you know any anything else you want to say before we jump to our interview for the rest of the show today?
Giorgio Tupanjanin 12:39
Just a pleasure. Speaking with you tonight cheers and thank you so much. And we are going to rock this Saturday. Awesome.
Jason Hartman 12:47
Any of you who don’t have tickets and want to grab a last minute ticket? Hey, go to Jason hartman.com slash masters, Jason hartman.com slash masters and grab your last minute tickets. We’ve got a few left Elite is sold out. And you know, I probably have to say VIP is sold out, although I have to check with Carrie on our team on that. But But we definitely have general admission tickets left, we’re just going to have a great time for three days, it’s going to be awesome. And for those of you who already have tickets, make sure you download the conference app. So you have the schedule, the speaker BIOS, their resumes, a whole bunch of resources documents that we’ve loaded into that and we’re going to continue to load more documents in the PowerPoint presentations, all kinds of good stuff for you. So be sure to download the app. We have sent you an email with a link to download the app so be sure to get that Hey everybody, we gotta jump to the second half of Sue and Gary and their and their client case study and get to the good part of their real estate investing journey. And I just want to say before we do that to everybody, don’t stop believing. We’ll see on on well on Friday morning, but Giorgio will see you and your band on Saturday. Night. So thanks for joining us.
Giorgio Tupanjanin 14:01
Thank you so much truly enjoyed it.
Jason Hartman 14:10
So now that you’ve had some time with these properties and with your portfolio, share some best practices tips, if you will, for dealing with property managers. I don’t think you self manage anything, but certainly self management is probably something you’ve considered. I think the two of you, Sue and Gary have maybe listened to every single podcast episode I’ve done. And by the way, we’re almost at 1000 at the time of this recording, so yeah.
Sue Pinkerton 14:40
I’ve listened to all of them numerous times. Okay, because I’m with helping you with kind of some of the flashback Friday stuff so lots of stuff there. My first comment on
Gary Pinkerton 14:50
this management Gary, I actually do self manage that
Gary Pinkerton 14:53
four Plex that’s original property. We self manage that entire building for a while, and I found it to be amazingly easy and I will too much into mind because Jason and I covered that on a previous episode, my thoughts, I would love to hear yours. One of the things I was going to mention at the end of the journey, Jason is that Susan, as you said, had had finished up her full time job, and is now becoming the real estate professional to run our properties. And it’s pretty amazing. But she knows more, and has probably more lessons now at this point about managing the managers than I do.
Jason Hartman 15:22
Good stuff. So share some of those with us if you would.
Sue Pinkerton 15:25
So we self managed the single family residence in Oklahoma City, because that was a newer construction. And then we still self manage, I believe two of the units in the four Plex kind of just got to where it was time for a tenant turnover. And, you know, we weren’t really clued in on the background checks and you know, all of that kind of stuff for new tenants. So we handed over two units to property management down there. But otherwise, you know, kind of I just find sometimes you do have to, you know, I’m still spending some Managing the managers, because I find that things will slip through the cracks, you know, and I’ll use our Memphis as an example. One of the houses is a section eight property, and we weren’t getting paid the section eight portion, one month, it was less than the normal then the next month, it was nothing. And it took me to say, Hey, you know, what’s going on here? Why is this going on? And to get on the property manager and to look into it? And then, you know, that ended up being a four to five month ordeal. And, you know, we got Sarah involved in all that. It came out, okay. But you know, we were good for a couple months. And then you know, now we just had another issue for a month and so I do find that I can just take their numbers and put them in my spreadsheet.
Jason Hartman 16:48
You know what they’re doing? Yeah, you gotta pay attention. But you know what, I’m curious. Both of you have talked and this is one of the things I really value is transparency, and I try to share on my show And I think everybody that’s listened for a while will completely agree with this hopefully, that, you know, I’m just really transparent, the good, the bad and the ugly. Because you know, when you are just upfront about it, people’s expectations are set correctly, you know. And I find that makes my life a lot easier. Frankly, I’ll say it’s even for a selfish reason. But to an outsider who’s maybe happened to catch this is the first episode that they listened to right. And they’re thinking, Well, why would I want to deal with this with all this problem? You know, I’ll just put my money in the stock market or keep it in the bank or something. You know, it sounds like a lot of headaches. Can you guys address that is why would you be excited about it? After all this
Gary Pinkerton 17:44
right, we’re trying to drive away the competition. Okay,
Jason Hartman 17:47
got it. Got it. You don’t want other investors buying properties right. Trying to turn
Gary Pinkerton 17:50
them off? Yeah.
Sue Pinkerton 17:52O
h, I was gonna say it’s because when when you have that month where everything goes great, and you’re just like, that’s why I do it. Because I You know, had minimal maintenance calls, everyone paid their rent on time. And then I fully realized, like all my cash flow that month, and I’m just like, there you go. Now it’s like a game, like, how many months in a row? Can I? Can I make this happen? Right?
Gary Pinkerton 18:14
Yeah. And, and for me, it’s about one of the things that’s important is that the investor learns how to keep score correctly. And I’m kind of repeating you know, something that you’ve talked about a lot. But when you correctly keep score, it’s not just about the cash flow. And in fact, you know, the being able to offset the depreciation of the dollar to offset inflation. It’s huge, especially when you do it leveraged, right. So I talked to him, we’re at that Oklahoma City, Jason Hartman university that, you know, the numbers that are on all of these properties that we were looking at are in the 30s and 40%, total return on investment. And that’s actually what we’re still seeing with our properties because of the multi dimensions of it. Right. And, and so, yeah, you know, your comment about you feel every bump in the road. It’s a fractionalized industry. It’s going to keep a lot of people from Joining it, but what a
Jason Hartman 19:01
fragmented industry is what I’m going to say. Yeah, yeah.
Jason Hartman 19:04
Yeah, one of the things let me just comment on that, Gary for a moment. One of the things I say is that, you know, this is a common frustration with investors Hey, it frustrates me everyday to is that it’s a very fragmented industry, you know, everybody’s doing stuff a different way your property manager in, in one city will do it differently than in another city. One of my sayings is embrace the fragmentation because that fragmentation is what makes it very difficult for the institutional investors to get into the game. Now, granted, we all know they’re here to some extent, but in comparison to the overall marketplace, the institutional investor component in the business of buying and holding and renting single family homes is like nothing, okay. You know, you can say, okay, invitation homes, as you know, 50,000 homes or whatever they have now, right, and that sounds like a lot, but in comparison to the overall marketplace of 15 million or so. single family property residential properties owned by small investors. There are nothing okay. There are nothing. Yeah. And if this was not fragmented like that goldman sachs and Warren Buffett and every and your Berkshire Hathaway, I should say, you know, or and every other institutional investor would be in this market eating our lunch. Okay, so it’s good that it’s fragmented. That’s what keeps. It’s hard for them. Yeah,
Gary Pinkerton 20:26
yeah, exactly. What I was gonna say is that some of the stuff that I’m going to talk about it that incredible opportunity to talk and tell our story at meet the Masters is that you know, this opportunity for I mean, we are both extremely bullish that we’re on the right path and that a lot of Americans need to take this path, because it until you develop part of your personal finances that enables you to have consistent passive income and offset any concerns of inflation. You’re never really going to have the ability to go off and do what you want. You know, I mean there’s no bank account big enough in my opinion that will do that for you. But if you have something that keeps up with the changing economy keeps up with inflation, it gives you the freedom to go off and you know, step off the treadmill of life and do stuff you want to do. I mean, the reason we’re bullish on it, I mean, I think sulit agrees because of the freedom that it creates for our family.
Jason Hartman 21:18
Yeah, and pardon my crass language here but it just sounds better to say it this way. It doesn’t keep up with inflation this kicks inflations ass it does it in two ways. Of course inflation reduce debt destruction, which you know, regular listeners all understand very well by now, but also just leverage basic leverage because, you know, you outpace inflation on a five to one ratio. It’s a beautiful beautiful thing. So and then you have other dimensions where you earn return on investment as well. So yeah, good stuff. Good stuff. Yeah, you know, Gary, you just can’t do it. And But see, the thing I would argue and I’m sure you know, I don’t know we’ve never talked about this before. Over years you’ve been clients. But you know, I’m sure you guys have invested in stocks and bonds and done all the sort of Wall Street pooled assets stuff. And you know, with that stuff, it’s like, you have to totally pay attention to that. I mean, anybody listening who thinks they can give their money to some financial planner, or even put it in an index fund, they are crazy, you got to pay attention that you’ve got to read, you’ve got to learn, you’ve got to watch CNBC all day, even then, it’s so out of your control, you really have no idea how you’ll do but you know, I always say there’s no such thing as a passive investment. And let me share a small example. This is not a major example. But it’s worth talking about. Even the bank is not a passive investment. Because, of course, your money is getting destroyed by taxes and inflation. We all know that. But you know, I have some bank accounts that you know, I just spread money around in different banks. And you know, I don’t want to Go over the FDIC $250,000 limit. And so you know, I just never do anything with them. They just sit there right? Or you know, I have a little bit I admit, I have some money in the bank because I honestly don’t have enough time to deploy it. Okay, sometimes, and I do my real estate investing, I do hard money lending. And so I get this, you know, notice, like, you know, that we think your account has been abandoned. You’ve got to sign this letter and fill out this paperwork. Otherwise, we’re going to let this cheat to the state. And I’m like, Are you kidding? There is nothing passive here. Like even a bank account, there’s an example right? So
Gary Pinkerton 23:38
yeah, right. It’s, it’s,
Sue Pinkerton 23:42
I’m not really
Gary Pinkerton 23:45
we’re off on a tangent here.
Sue Pinkerton 23:47
But I know back in
Jason Hartman 23:50
before real estate investing, you know, before Gary got on this kick, and then he got you enrolled in it. What did you do? Were you were you not the money person was Gary the money person or They’re both are, you know, are you looking at your 401k? And the stock market? And that kind of stuff?
Sue Pinkerton 24:06
Yeah, we would both do it, keep an eye on it. And we were just, you know, kind of mutual funds because, you know, we thought we could just invest in it and not really have to pay attention to it, right? Because you’re investing for the long haul, and we’re not buying and selling and
Jason Hartman 24:21
hurt me now.
Sue Pinkerton 24:23
So that was where we were, you know, put as much money into your 401k as you could, or Gary had the Thrift Savings Plan. And so that was what we did. And then you know, and I know Gary has told the story before, you know, my parents are retired now, but yet my dad is constantly like, my gonna have enough money to make it through, you know, he’s only in his 70s how much longer you know, am I going to need this money for and you know, so it just kind of all circles back to not wanting to have to worry, as I get older that I’m gonna outlive the money yo
Jason Hartman 24:57
yo su as a health care plan. person that you are, you gotta, I’m sure agree with this that the biggest problem a lot of people are going to face and it’s a good one is too much life left at the end of the money because people are sadly because of obesity and diabetes and all this stuff. You know, life expectancy actually has gone down slightly in America for like the first time ever. I believe I just read that. But overall, I am I think it’s an amazing time to be alive. And as you’ve heard me say, and I think that that is going to take a real turn with some of the longevity technologies, longevity sciences that are just, it feels like they’re on the verge of making some road rage. Yeah, yeah. So
Sue Pinkerton 25:43
yep. You know, hopefully, age expectancy will go back up and then you know, what are you going to do work into your 70s or work into your 80s or 90s or hundreds.
Jason Hartman 25:53
know like, Ray if you listen to Ray Kurzweil, he says, we’re going to have Things that you know, clean out our veins and arteries and amazing I mean all this stuff that’s right around the corner is pretty incredible good stuff. Want to share any other like another best practice before you go and let’s kind of wrap it up or any anything I didn’t ask you about that you want to share?
Gary Pinkerton 26:17
Well, Jason, most importantly, I just want to say thanks for having us on. Thanks for helping lead us through this journey of five to six years. I mean, it’s been just incredible for us. Like we pointed out earlier we shared some complaints but I think that’s because we’re a Type A people and you know, your mom has commented once and you’ve laughed about we laughed about numerous times your mom’s comment that she complains all the way to the bank about her section eight tenants. Yeah. But you know, at the end when you look at those B class or even your C class or and the a class, when you at the end of the year, if you spend time to actually keep score correctly, you’ll be amazed at the impact and then everything got so much better with the new tax changes. So I’m very very bullish on this, I can’t wait to, you know, kind of share our experience and talk about what I do you know, I meet the master. So this next couple of weeks coming is going to be amazing.
Jason Hartman 27:09
Yeah, good stuff. Well, thank you so much for sharing Sue Gary, we really appreciate it. It’s always great to have case studies, our listeners love it. And they love to hear from real people that are doing real stuff that have real challenges, real highs, real lows, you know, you know, it all kind of get works out in the wash. So you know, I think the key, the key thing is just understand, go in with realistic expectations. There will be problems. It’s just part of life. It’s, you know, we’re all adults. We know it’s not all a bed of roses. Hopefully we have learned that by now. And, you know, you just got to be persistent and work your way through it. That’s what you do with anything that you want to see come to fruition. So, so thank you to both so much for sharing with us today. We appreciate it and we’ll look forward to seeing you soon at meet the masters.
Sue Pinkerton 28:01
Jason Hartman 28:03
Thank you so much for listening. Please be sure to subscribe so that you don’t miss any episodes. Be sure to check out the show’s specific website and our general website heart and Mediacom for appropriate disclaimers and Terms of Service. Remember that guest opinions are their own. And if you require specific legal or tax advice, or advice and any other specialized area, please consult an appropriate professional. And we also very much appreciate you reviewing the show. Please go to iTunes or Stitcher Radio or whatever platform you’re using can write a review for the show we would very much appreciate that. And be sure to make it official and subscribe so you do not miss any episodes. We look forward to seeing you on the next episode. Welcome to meet the masters of income property investing. I’m your host Jason Hartman.
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